Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

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Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:10 pm

So last night was my first free night in a few days thanks to a holiday, and I decided to try and practice. I woke up after about 6 hours, did my few activities when I was awake (for about five minutes), then lied down and started trying to create the intent in my mind. What I found was that as long as I was thinking about it I was keeping myself awake, and when I let my mind wander I was able to get back to sleep, but I couldn't recall what I was supposed to do when I awoke.

TL;DR, is there a way I can create intent without having to constantly concentrate on the idea, hence keeping myself awake?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Luna » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:22 pm

Let your mind wander then as it's wandering, just before you are about to loose that consciousness....gently reign in the control and carefully guide it. No sudden 'mental movements' though or you'll wake yourself up.

Create the intent before you go to bed for the night, not just when you wake up after 6hrs. That will help immensely.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. ~ Einstein
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:41 pm

I find that catching myself before just losing consciousness is nigh impossible. By the time I start relaxing, I have little control over my thoughts. I still don't know what to do here.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Luna » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:07 pm

Ok well I't not too sure either in that case. I can only share what works for me. Maybe someone else more experienced can shed some light.
Sorry I've been no help.  :-\
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. ~ Einstein
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Summerlander » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:48 am

Luna has the right idea.  By the way, if you are going to try the deferred method, perhaps increase the sleep inertia period (the length of time that you are awake before going back down to enter the phase).

A little more physiological arousal will do you good and may help you to nail the phase state.  You may even enter it without a perceived loss of consciousness.  Rather than 5 minutes of wakefulness after having slept, try 15 or 20.  See what happens.

Remember, the phase is a hybrid state involving wakefulness and dreaming.  This means that you are awake (mindful) in the dream world rather than the typical drunken-like state through which dreams are experienced.  Hence the term "lucid dreaming".

It is okay to have intention but you must also have confidence.  Also, don't mistake intention with obsession.  Try a more relaxed approach.  Don't say to yourself:  "I must enter the phase".  Try: "I would like to enter the phase because it's fun".

Also, revise SOBT.  I find myself going back to it quite a lot. ;)
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:23 pm

I also tend to be doing things all the way up until the point I go to sleep. Usually, I'm on the computer up until I point I decide I'm tired, then I lie down and sleep. Should I take some time after I feel tired to relax and try to clear my mind before going to bed?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby BK » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:20 pm

I have found that meditation during this deferred waking time works well for me and that using "devices" gives really bad results.

You will need to play with it and customize it for yourself.
Assuming you have a fixed wakeup time..for really getting up...
Try to adjust..
1.  How early you wake up to start your deferred method.
2.  How long you stay awake.
3.  What activity you do during this deferred waking time.
4.  How much time you have to fall back asleep and enter the Phase before you start your day.
5.  How much time you have for sleeping before the first wake up period in the deferred method.

There are answers published in the SOBT book about how long to stay awake if you have trouble falling back asleep and so forth.  If you find yourslef awake and it is difficult to fall asleep, just lay there and do not get upset.  It may be a long night, but just let yourself know that you are getting rest and you will get rest.

Thoughts and anticipation will keep you up.  Try something stupid, boring and repetitive. Counting can help you fall asleep too.  That is why our parents told us to count sheep.  It does really work.

The 64 point body scan found in EWLD or the internet also helps me fall asleep and usually gives good results too.

Play with the variables.  Remember not to confuse a deferred indirect method with a deferred direct method.  Your job is to fall asleep and then catch the awakenings.  It is like setting an alarm clock.  Set it and then forget about it until it rings.
 
"Setting" is the intention to catch an awakening.  Do not wait for it..let it come to you.  That is why it is called an awakening...ehem from sleep.
"The alarm" in this simile is the awakening.

Start with the easy stuff, like noticing everytime you turn in your sleep.  Then refine your awakenings and intention.

I am still new, and I can tell you that sometimes I just wake up and missed all awakenings.  Three days per week is good.  You have other days to catch them when nothing worked the first time.  You also don't become obsessed and tired either since it is only three days per week.  The practice nights should be special. 

Look for and appreciate improvement.
Look for how many awakenings you can catch.
Look for how many cycles you can do.
Look for how many times you can do an attempt.
Look at the quality of the cycles.

Appreciate the near misses as a learning experience.
I appreciate this method because it allows me to be lazy.  My attitude is I can get mindfulness or sleep.  I like both, so I usually win.

I hope this helps.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Summerlander » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:24 pm

BK wrote:I have found that meditation during this deferred waking time works well for me and that using "devices" gives really bad results.


I have noticed this too before.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:41 pm

So last night I had another really short phase. I had extremely vivid dreams beforehand, unusually so, then had a false awakening. I then separated by "flailing" all of my limbs until I was able to just pull out of my body. The same thing happened as the first time. Spent a very short amount of time palpating my bookshelf, then something startled me and two seconds later, I woke up. Took some time to think about what happened, then slept, had more very vivid dreams, another false awakening, and here I am. Should there be anything I should pay specific attention to?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Summerlander » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:22 am

You are taking steps in the right direction.  Deepen and then maintain.  Perform the techniques as needed.  Do not worry about fouling.  Remember that if you foul you can always try re-entering.  You could practice by separating from the body and exploring your phase home.  Perhaps dedicate a whole phase on this.  Just explore the dream house whilst practicing deepening and maintaining.  Make it your plan to just practicing in managing the phase within the home environment.  See how long you last there.  Then do it again.  Try to last longer each time.  Soon you will be a pro like a Jedi Knight in the phase. 8)
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby BK » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:48 am

I find that a distinct and specific plan of action is key.  Multiple plans  are even better.  This is also in the SOBT.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:57 pm

I'm still having a lot of trouble creating intent. Is there a specific page in the book that talks about techniques to create it? Also, what do you guys personally do to create it?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:00 pm

Still no luck, folks. Could my depression be causing me to have so much trouble?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby TheOnerous » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm

Some anti-depressants can inhibit rem. That's about the extent of my knowledge, though.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Th3TruthizInThere » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:08 pm

I am no expert, so this is just what works for me.  First, take time to really think about what phase plan of action is exciting to you. Mine is intensely focused on sexual encounters in the phase because it excites my mind and senses. I have a specific course of action that I am excited and anxious to follow.

Next, I recognize the many people who are able to enter the phase, have come back safely, and navigated the territory that we otherwise might view as extremely terrifying.

At night laying down before I first go to sleep, I speak to myself with confidence telling myself what I'm going to do.

"I am going to fall asleep. When I start dreaming, I will become alert in that dream and begin deepening the phase by palpating objects and peering while fearlessly and simultaneously moving to [place where I need to perform my POA] where I will then [Details of POA]."

"If I feel myself start to wake up or foul, I will grab onto something nearby or my own hand.  I will lie still and do FFA then try to separate without moving. If I move, I will try FFA again and do indirect techniques." "Once I am able to separate, I will begin deepening. . ." 

I then take a couple of minutes visualizing in my mind and body the experience that I will have which for me has a sort of "seeding effect" on the direction of my dreams and overall experience. This has worked very well for me, so maybe it could work for you too. I hope it helps somebody. Happy Flying!  8)
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:34 pm

TheOnerous wrote:Some anti-depressants can inhibit rem. That's about the extent of my knowledge, though.


I don't think lack of REM is the problem. The problem is that my mind wanders and I can't keep it on the subject of the practice as I fall asleep. Try as I might, when I start losing consciousness, I have little to no control over my thoughts, and they wander to things that are more immediately stimulating, such as a funny video I watched earlier in the day or a song that I heard.

I don't know how to keep my mind on the separation. It's like I subconsciously reject any thoughts related to it, no matter how much I might want to otherwise.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby TheOnerous » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:42 pm

Yes, looks like you might have the same sort of problems that I have experienced and am gradually overcoming. I am not sure though. I'm experimenting with various techniques and creating some new ones mostly with the aim to help me to wake up and immediately try phase entry.

I need to post them on my blog when I get a chance. I don't know if the ideas are any good though. Maybe Mr Raduga will turn and say they are rubbish! But waking up, staying still and immediately trying to enter the phase has been my biggest problem to overcome and is the problem I am investing most of my effort in.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Th3TruthizInThere » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:43 pm

Maybe you can use the distraction to your advantage. What if the song you heard helped you to formulate a Plan of Action (POA) to attend a concert where that distracting song was performed in the phase? Or would it work to have a POA that you would be performing as part of one of these funny videos that distract you from practicing the phase.

I'm thinking it would help you not feel you are struggling against your mind so much, and after having a measure of success things will probably calm down for you more. I hope you have a breakthrough soon!
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:22 am

Th3TruthizInThere wrote:Maybe you can use the distraction to your advantage. What if the song you heard helped you to formulate a Plan of Action (POA) to attend a concert where that distracting song was performed in the phase? Or would it work to have a POA that you would be performing as part of one of these funny videos that distract you from practicing the phase.

I'm thinking it would help you not feel you are struggling against your mind so much, and after having a measure of success things will probably calm down for you more. I hope you have a breakthrough soon!


My mind tends to be completely blank at the very moment of regaining consciousness, but thoughts start flooding in very quickly. It's kind of like when you turn on the faucet. There's a moment where nothing happens, then the water pours out.

I can think of three possible reasons why I can't do it.

1. Depression keeps me from being able to concentrate. This is a problem when I'm awake and fully conscious too. I have trouble learning things when I never used to.

2. My mind is simply untrained and not used to concentrating on such things, and is instead much more accustomed to wandering blindly when trying to fall asleep and wake up from sleep.

3. Perhaps it's internal wiring. I'm autistic (Aspergers), maybe that has some correlation?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:27 am

I'm still not having any luck. I'll leave a few things here that might help you help me. I'm completely stumped as to what I might be able to do.

* I've realized that every time I've separated, thoughts about practicing are dominating my mind. My first time, I watched one of the videos Mr. Raduga made, and I got extremely excited and could think of nothing else. (This also happens to be the experience of mine that ended up in SOBT)

* Recently, the only times I've had any luck remembering to practice is after an extremely vivid dream. I don't have vivid dreams very often (maybe once a month at most)

* Reading through SOBT during the time I'm awake seems to help somewhat. I can keep the thoughts in my head for a while, and nod off for short periods of time, but I can never fall asleep and after a while my mind begins to wander again, and only then can I get back to sleep.

* I seem to be having many "self-sabotaging thoughts" when I wake up before my alarm goes off. I am overcome by the usually overwhelming urge to simply turn off my alarm and go back to sleep, not bothering with practicing. It's extremely frustrating and I tend to kick myself for it the following day.

Does any of that help?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Anthony Pucci » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:25 pm

I see people have given up on me here, so I guess that means I'll give up too. Thanks for trying, I guess.
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby TheOnerous » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:24 am

I see Mr Raduga hasn't replied in this thread. He hasn't been posting on the forum much lately I've noticed. Maybe wait until you get a response from MR and go from there?
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Re: Trying to create intent, but just keeping myself awake

Postby Summerlander » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:18 am

I guess a lot of people are going through busy periods.  Don't give up.  Keep reporting your experiences.  I'm planning to go through all the blogs soon!  Michael is just busy at the moment.  ;)
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