Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Share and discuss indirect techniques, direct techniques, becoming conscious while dreaming, non-autonomous methods

Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:54 pm

I had an idea for a new technique on Sunday night (five minutes before bed time!) which I put into practice straight away. It's been an unbelievable week and last night my dreams reached a realism I didn't think was possible. I'd like to run the technique (I'm quite reluctant to use the term "technique" actually, but it will do for now) past the members here.

Why have I experienced the results I have? It could be placebo. It could be a self-fulfilling prophecy because, after two nights I experienced an impressive increase in recall so maybe I expected the improvement to continue. I have started using SSILD and that maybe is an influence or maybe the main reason for my results and the part that should get all the credit. I conclude that perhaps this week has generated more questions than answers!

I'd like folk to have a look at my thoughts. I didn't want to share the information as though it's a tutorial because I don't know for sure what ideas are new, what ideas won't work, and what ideas are just bad science. In fact, I'm really not sure of the best way to describe the ideas buzzing round my head. But I'll do my best!

I would welcome feedback and corrections from anyone, but in particular I would value feedback from 12padams, Summerlander, Th3TruthizInThere, APVirgin, cosmic.iron and, of course, Michael.
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby 12padams » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:14 pm

I would welcome feedback and corrections from anyone, but in particular I would value feedback from 12padams, Summerlander, Th3TruthizInThere, APVirgin, cosmic.iron and, of course, Michael.

Wow, any reason I was the first person who popped into your head? Lol ;)

I'm a little confused by your post... Where exactly is this "technique" you would like us to look over?
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:28 pm

12padams wrote:
I would welcome feedback and corrections from anyone, but in particular I would value feedback from 12padams, Summerlander, Th3TruthizInThere, APVirgin, cosmic.iron and, of course, Michael.

Wow, any reason I was the first person who popped into your head? Lol ;)

I'm a little confused by your post... Where exactly is this "technique" you would like us to look over?


Ha ha. Number one. No, it's a passion thing - as I've got older I've come to realise that passion about something is one of life's greatest gifts. Anyway. I'm trying to get my thoughts together so I can communicate my ideas as well as I can. I kind of wanted to alert folk to my intentions so as to emphasize this isn't something that I've just made up off the top of my head.
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby breadbassed » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Im always up for trying out new techniques, it seems to give me a new lease of life, so to speak, when trying to enter the phase. I get lazy sometimes!
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:22 pm

Nice one breadbassed.  8)
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby Summerlander » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:58 pm

Hi, TheOnerous!

Is it me or is this SSILD (senses-initiated lucid dream - I can't figure out what the other "S" stands for) method is encompassed in SOBT's indirect techniques by our savant Michael?  Particularly, where one begins by observing images (since vision is paramount) and here is an excerpt from our beloved guide:

"Immediately after waking from sleep, remain motionless, eyes closed.  Observe the blank space before the eyes for 3 to 5 seconds and try to locate recognizable pictures, images, or symbols.  If nothing appears during this exercise, the technique should be substituted.  If something appears, continue to passively observe the images.  Meanwhile, the images will become increasingly realistic, literally enveloping the practitioner.  Do not aggressively examine the details of the image, or it will vanish or change.  The image should be experienced as a panorama, taking everything in.  Observe the images as long as the quality and realism increases.  Doing so yields two possible results: the practitioner becomes part of the surroundings, and has achieved the phase, or the image becomes borderline or absolutely realistic, and separation from the physical body is possible."

With that said, one can alternate through the techniques accordingly as the imagination and thoughts are stimulated to form perceived senses followed by sensory amplification.  Of course it works and it is very effective.  The intention to make our sensations as realistic as possible is there and, as stated in SOBT, if the body has rested, memory and intention are kept intact through the moment of awakening.

Another possible addition to the SSILD method would be sensory-motor visualisation where after waking from sleep and remaining motionless, physical movement is imagined while touching an actual object and exploring the details of an imagined room.  If real and imagined sensations become mixed, then the practitioner may continue until the imagined sensations overcome the primary senses.

You also mentioned that there was an impressive increase in recall and the conscious mind is very much interconnected with memory-related processes.  So, besides the placebo theory, you also have the possibility that your boosted memory aided the intensification of conscious sensations in the phase and vice versa (a good recall of what was experienced) - the optimal cycle continues if maintained.  This could also mean that your days of bungling most attempts at phase entrance are over.

All in all, SSILD goes by a different name or names in SOBT so to speak, and, as mentioned in other sites about the phase, are a set of techniques that can be aplied in both WILD and DILD.  In any case, if you have developed original ideas or think a new method lurks in the depths of your mind, pray tell!

This thread could be a new opportunity for more clarifications.  Clarifications, clarifications, clarifications... ;D
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:31 pm

I think the person who devised SSILD, cosmic.iron, was very familiar with MR's work and had utilised some of the ideas from SOBT. I lurked around a few forums online where CI participated and can vaguely remember one where s/he explained the differences between SSILD and the cycling techs.

I think cosmic went with the name SSILD because SILD was already taken (by something I can't remember).

These were my two experiences with SSILD this week: In the first one I was wide awake at the end of the cycles at about 3am. It took me quite a while to fall asleep but in this case I just treated it like a long WBTB and subsequently had a very vivid string of dreams. In the second case, I fell asleep shortly after the completion of the cycles and had the most realistic dream I've ever had. Unfortunately I didn't bother RCing because I concluded something so real couldn't possibly be a dream!

I'm quite keen to get my ideas down here. As you may already know - or I may have said elsewhere - thinking about lucidity/the phase and experimenting with new techniques and trying to devise new approaches holds almost as much appeal to me as entering the phase itself. I'm fairly sure that MILD could make me lucid a few times a week but I like to experiment instead and try to find something better.
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Introduction

Postby TheOnerous » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:33 pm

Introduction

Here are my thoughts at the moment. It’s just a collection of thoughts. It’s a bit of a mish mash at the current time and there’s  lot of assumptions and guesswork here. I haven’t really pointed out which ideas I believe to be guesswork or perhaps “bad scienceâ€
Last edited by TheOnerous on Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Possible new technique.

Postby TheOnerous » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:36 pm

Possible New Technique
[u][b]
The dream “feelingâ€
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby Summerlander » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:03 pm

I think the person who devised SSILD, cosmic.iron, was very familiar with MR's work and had utilised some of the ideas from SOBT. I lurked around a few forums online where CI participated and can vaguely remember one where s/he explained the differences between SSILD and the cycling techs.


I found evidence of this too.  In fact, there is compelling evidence that cosmic was an SOBT reader.  The sole factor that at one point he mentions reaching the "phase" instead of using the usual and more popular terms "OOBE" and "LD" gives it away! ;D

I'm fairly sure that MILD could make me lucid a few times a week but I like to experiment instead and try to find something better.


Stephen LaBerge's MILD is very effective when performed dilligently.  How could it not be effective as it deals with remembering things.  There you go again: memory... it is soooo important!

Thought experiment: You can get the dream feeling just after waking.


You can also imagine that you are dreaming right now... even though you're in the waking state.  This brings to mind what LaBerge said: “Dreaming is perception unconstrained by sensory input.  Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input.â€
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:36 am

Wow, thanks for taking the time to provide a lengthy response, Summerlander.

I can see I'll need to read through a few times before I'll be able to digest all the newness and comment.  ;) 8)
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby 12padams » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:00 am

Well when it comes to improving dream recall and desire to enter the phase I highly recommend it. When you wake in the morning writing down your dreams instantly is ultra important otherwise they will be wiped from your short term memory and never move into your long term memory.

I definitely experience the "pop" you have mentioned some mornings yet others I practically gain end dream lucidity and the transition to waking is fully conscious and occurs in front of my eyes allowing me to literally be conscious as the dream around me fades.

To gain "end dream lucidity" (consciously watch a dream fade then feel yourself transition to bed) more often I used to spend hours each day just writing down my dreams in as much detail as possible. With this end dream lucidity or consious dream exit you can perform separation upon awakening or indirect techniques very easily. I don't recall my dreams in extreme multiple page detail anymore however due to my full time job as a childcare educator. Also the downside is I dislike writing (yet I write phase books...) and if its going to take up all my free time I get put off entering the phase and without desire to enter it your chances are quite low... Or are they?

Today I had a phase experience because I desperately didn't want to have one. I thought I had to get up early in the morning and I already went to bed late so I wanted to make the most of the little time I had to sleep. Well my iPhone notified me at 4:10am this morning that a app was free for today only... Yep an unintentional alarm. I then got distracted with reading emails on my iPad and before I knew it I had been awake browsing the web for 30 minutes.

I had to get back to sleep as soon as possible because it was now 4:40am. So I did the dumbest thing ever...I performed my sleep simulation technique which I usually use for phase entry however I modified it to rapidly get me to sleep. As I tried to get to sleep I thought "Ok, hopefully I don't have a phase experience but I had better be on the lookout incase I do and perform my plan of action if I find myself in the phase". I quickly thought "Investigate unit 102" then fell asleep.

Boom! Long dream, False awakening another false awakening which leads to lucidity then a false awakening leading to another phase experience in which I continue to attempt my plan of action. It was so stupid of me to perform my sleep simulation technique because I know it personally induces phase experiences for me and has been the cause of them since the beginning when I used to attempt Michael's indirect technqiues.

Strangly enough I woke at 5:38am after my phase experience which means that the 30 minutes I spent browsing the web actually was the equivalent of lying still in bed for 30 minutes to an hour like I do in my sleep simulation technique. So rem is consistent but deep sleep doesn't actually require me to be asleep. In other words whatever I do within an hour after waking early in the morning counts as sleep then if I go back to bed I can instantly enter rem and have a phase experience due to the lack of loss of consciousness during deep sleep.

I'll write more about that phase experience on my blog in a few days from now...

Anyway what I find most interesting about the pop is the fact that without it (some rare mornings I wake without remembering any dreams) its impossible to remember any of the dream unless you see something in real life during the day that reminds you of the dream you couldn't remember. The pop usually gives you a small fragment of the dream and from that small fragment you can pull in the string of data as you recall the events around the remembered dream event.

It's almost like accessing another part of the brain or another drive on a computer hard drive. Once you leave the C: drive (physical memories) and explore the D: drive (dream memories) its a whole other section of data that you are accessing. Becoming lucid is harder though because it's like you are on a computer system in which the administrator has restricted your access to the D: drive.

Sometimes you can walk past the admin and see what files he's looking at on the D: drive. This is practically recalling your dreams in the morning. The more you walk past the admin and focus on his computer the more you can see of the files and your dreams. Eventually a strange situation may come up in which your admin has to step out for a bit. At this point you can take over control of the D: drive giving you read (experience) and write (control) access to the files (dreams) on it. You can't stick around for long however because soon your admin will come back and either fire you (kick you out of the phase) or distract you and take control of the computer again.

Anyways when it comes to "awakening in the phase" I find that simply believing you will awaken in the phase is enough to trigger a false awakening which you can turn into a phase experience by performing a reality check. It's worked for me in the past but I wouldn't fully invest all my hope in it.

Anyway good luck TheOnerous
Last edited by 12padams on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:20 am

Excellent, thanks for your input folks. More welcome.

I will read your posts Summer and Twelvey (Just given you a nickname, ha!), digest your thoughts and respond. Right now my little girl is in need of some attention!
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:04 am

I think the person who devised SSILD, cosmic.iron, was very familiar with MR's work and had utilised some of the ideas from SOBT. I lurked around a few forums online where CI participated and can vaguely remember one where s/he explained the differences between SSILD and the cycling techs.


I found evidence of this too.  In fact, there is compelling evidence that cosmic was an SOBT reader.  The sole factor that at one point he mentions reaching the "phase" instead of using the usual and more popular terms "OOBE" and "LD" gives it away! ;D


Any thoughts on why SSILD works? (Not that I've experienced a definite LD from SSILD yet myself!)

Stephen LaBerge's MILD is very effective when performed dilligently.  How could it not be effective as it deals with remembering things.  There you go again: memory... it is soooo important!


Things are starting to fall into place for me. I can see the sense of MILD now more.

[quote]This brings to mind what LaBerge said: “Dreaming is perception unconstrained by sensory input.  Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input.â€
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:05 am

Thanks Summerlander.  8)

I'm not neglecting you, Twelvey. I'm hoping to read your post in depth tomorrow.
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby 12padams » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:28 am

I'm not neglecting you, Twelvey. I'm hoping to read your post in depth tomorrow.

Lol no problem... Btw twelvey is unique to compared of what I've been called in the past. Usually it's 12pad or padams. Oh and in real life... Philip gets turned into fillet-o-fish ;)
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby Summerlander » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:58 pm

Well when it comes to improving dream recall and desire to enter the phase I highly recommend it. When you wake in the morning writing down your dreams instantly is ultra important otherwise they will be wiped from your short term memory and never move into your long term memory.


You nailed it in a few words here, 12padams!  BINGO! 8)
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby TheOnerous » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:04 am

Well when it comes to improving dream recall and desire to enter the phase I highly recommend it. When you wake in the morning writing down your dreams instantly is ultra important otherwise they will be wiped from your short term memory and never move into your long term memory.


This realisation has hit me like a train lately. I've tried so many experiments over the years and concluded they didn't work, but I didn't try them in conjunction with dream recall.

I definitely experience the "pop" you have mentioned some mornings yet others I practically gain end dream lucidity and the transition to waking is fully conscious and occurs in front of my eyes allowing me to literally be conscious as the dream around me fades.


I wonder if I will also experience that when my recall improves?

To gain "end dream lucidity" (consciously watch a dream fade then feel yourself transition to bed) more often I used to spend hours each day just writing down my dreams in as much detail as possible. With this end dream lucidity or consious dream exit you can perform separation upon awakening or indirect techniques very easily.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Michael doesn't talk about dream recall when discussing indirect techniques, does he? I've concentrated on indirect techniques (on and off) for about a year with little success. Can recall pay a larger part in successful separation than I've assumed?

Today I had a phase experience because I desperately didn't want to have one. I thought I had to get up early in the morning and I already went to bed late so I wanted to make the most of the little time I had to sleep. Well my iPhone notified me at 4:10am this morning that a app was free for today only... Yep an unintentional alarm. I then got distracted with reading emails on my iPad and before I knew it I had been awake browsing the web for 30 minutes.

I had to get back to sleep as soon as possible because it was now 4:40am. So I did the dumbest thing ever...I performed my sleep simulation technique which I usually use for phase entry however I modified it to rapidly get me to sleep. As I tried to get to sleep I thought "Ok, hopefully I don't have a phase experience but I had better be on the lookout incase I do and perform my plan of action if I find myself in the phase". I quickly thought "Investigate unit 102" then fell asleep.

Boom! Long dream, False awakening another false awakening which leads to lucidity then a false awakening leading to another phase experience in which I continue to attempt my plan of action. It was so stupid of me to perform my sleep simulation technique because I know it personally induces phase experiences for me


Can your provide a link to your sleep simulation tech?

Anyway what I find most interesting about the pop is the fact that without it (some rare mornings I wake without remembering any dreams) its impossible to remember any of the dream unless you see something in real life during the day that reminds you of the dream you couldn't remember. The pop usually gives you a small fragment of the dream and from that small fragment you can pull in the string of data as you recall the events around the remembered dream event.


What I like and find rather strange - and maybe you experience it too? - is when a dream pops into my head in the middle of the day and I have no idea if I had that dream last night, in the past, a week ago, ten years ago or if it's a recurring theme.

Anyways when it comes to "awakening in the phase" I find that simply believing you will awaken in the phase is enough to trigger a false awakening which you can turn into a phase experience by performing a reality check. It's worked for me in the past but I wouldn't fully invest all my hope in it.

Anyway good luck TheOnerous


Thanks fillet-o-fish ( ;) ). I'm looking forward to see how my dream adventures evolve now I have had an "aha!" moment.
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Re: Possible new technique. And questions, questions, questions.

Postby Summerlander » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:52 pm

Summerlander: It has been suggested in individuals with remarkable memories, a form of unconscious rehearsal is taking place.
TheOnerous:Not quite with you there, chap.


Allow me to explain where I'm coming from here.  The suggestion states that certain individuals who have a good autobiographical memory could be rehearsing them in their heads unconsciously.  This comes from the fact that the more memories are repeated, the more likely that they will qualify from short-term to long-term. 

Memories can be lost too, though not completely, because, they can be retrieved by sensory input or other kinds of stimulus such as emotion.  I'll give you an example.  You might revisit the town you used to live in when you were a child and glance at an alley which might cause you to piece together a memory of a fight you had with another kid.  Yes, I said "piece" together.  Memories are not DVDs you fish out of your mental library. 

In fact, they are not even recordings of the past contrary to what most people think.  They are reconstructions of what was once experienced which caused a neuronal pattern to form amongst the myriad synaptic connections.  Due to the complexity of the brain, these reconstructions will never be the same as what was originally experienced, hence details can be added on which were never present in reality.  Emotions can be added on too.  This very same process is also responsible for false memories.  It also plays its role in the phase and we see evidence of this when we separate from the body only to find that the walls of our bedroom are green and not blue, or that there are more windows than it should, or the doorknob is different.  The mind creates realities.

Likewise, memories.  These are reconstructions every time we recall them.  And every reconstruction is different version.  It's like a story that is told originally and passed on from person to person.  After some time, the version of events is somewhat altered.  You could end up with a different thing altogether.

Summerlander:Practise playing tennis in the phase, hone your skills, and your necessary brain connections will have manifested before your body is even ready to be that agile and skilful.  Then, all that is left is for you to do some exercise as you already possess the mental knowledge for the task.
TheOnerous:I've always been a bit skeptical of claims like that. How does your sleeping self get the laws of physics right? And if you get an ace every serve, how do you know it's not just your perception of the event that has changed rather than your skill level?


I understand your scepticism.  There is, however, scientific evidence that people can learn skills if they exercise it mentally just as well as if they were doing it physically, if not faster!  The mind is extremely complex and explores many different ways of doing things.  They found that new brain connections formed - especially to do with the nerves for motor skills - on people who dreamed of playing piano but never actually played it. 

Altered states of consciousness can also get us to consider new perspectives or come across things that we wouldn't even think of in a normal waking state.  Think about the guy who worked for NASA and was commissioned to design a space station.  He wouldn't know where to start.  He slept on it and in a dream everything came together and seemed to make sense.  He woke up refreshed, full of ideas and voila: the dream came true so to speak.

Altering the perception of things can certainly incentivise you to do something in a different light.  Suddenly the boring becomes interesting.  Likewise, the difficult becomes easy.  The phase can be used as a training ground, especially with its hyperrealistic quality and its tendency to break the rules (the natural laws we learned from experiencing reality).  The phenomenon of OOBEs and lucid dreaming has been very aptly named here.  The broad term "phase" can describe a synchronicity between two mechanisms (in this case, that which gives origin to two states: wakefulness and dreaming). 

The word "phase" can also describe the prominent aspects of something that appears in the mind of an individual - bearing in mind that this thing that emerges in the mind has many modes or can be viewed/experienced in many different ways.  Also, it is a characteristic and distinct period in consciousness.  Very distinct!!!  "Phase" comes from the Greek word "phásis" meaning "appearance"; "aspect"; "stage".  I swear there was a thread asking about the origins of this word...

Creativity can also thrive from ordinary dreaming as a mishmash of thoughts can lead to new ideas.  This bears repeating: the brain and mind are malleable and certainly not immutable.  So if you get an ace every serve after having practised in the phase, it most certainly means that your mind has caused you to consider other ways.  In the phase you can bring all those unconscious connections and findings to the forefront.  We know more than we think we know.  We are certainly only conscious of a small portion of it.  Hence why the phase state provides one with the opportunity to "know thyself" which often leads to one getting in tune with the universe at large.
Last edited by Summerlander on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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