Re: Scientific Evidence For Telepathy and Precognition

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:34 pm

I think these are relevant to the 'out of body experience.' One can still draw their own conclusions as to the meaning of it all....

(Note that Persinger is a materialist;not an apologist for religion,psi or paranormal.I think this is very signifcant)
http://www.skeptiko.com/michael-persing ... thic-link/

(precognition)
http://dbem.ws/FeelingFuture.pdf

( This may be open to interpretation)
http://www.philosophy.uncc.edu/faculty/ ... olor2.html

(I don't buy this explanation,but there is good discussion here on the 'cutaneous rabbit.' How can the brain know when a series of taps will Not be delivered!?)
http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/time&obs.htm

This is interesting,it is often cited by Amit Goswami.He claims it has been repeated several times but I've had a hard time finding it:

J.Grinberg-Zylerbaum et(1994) The EPR Paradox in the Brain.
(They claimed to have demonstrated an Evoked Potential instantaneously transferred between two brains separated by faraday cages.Persinger may want to try this...)

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:26 pm

More good stuff with Persinger.Is this a version of the 'matrix' that Michael thinks is possible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg

I think he's onto something bigtime,eventhough it is logically invalid to say that electromagnetism is equal to consciousness.
(Creativity,qualia,intention,purpose,intelligence are not measurable qualities of the lawlike and predictable behaviors of electromagnetism and matter.)

Here's another video that may equally demonstrate that the brain is a constraint IMHO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYAfmyMZ ... r_embedded

Post by **Summerlander** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:41 pm

In regards to the Persinger link in your first post, I've been saying it for ages. what if the quantum entanglement of minds is possible? I too have had seemingly telepathic phase experiences where I seem to have capture the gist of what a visited person was doing or even what seemed to be on their minds at the time. Thanks for those links. It's amazing that someone like Persinger has gone there and I hope he researches this further.

Whatever you believe you can do in the phase...just do it. I'd also like to point out that this seems to go hand in hand with the possibility that the pineal micro-crystals are piezoelectric in nature. I often wonder if the "radio effect" one experiences sometimes in SP or prior to entering the phase are just hallucinations or something more.

I'm starting to think that we are all the same mind expressing itself in many different ways...Jeff, I'm about to check out the links from your second post. This thread is going somewhere, I tell ya...

Post by **Summerlander** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:58 pm

The correlational studies on dreams and the geomagnetic field was awesome! I've been thinking about this before! Our minds are connected. If the geomagnetic activity is quiet, the better the connections between the 7 billion brains.

Oh, man, the other video by Persinger was superb. Also, I loved the Creativity one. That was some noticeable improvement on the guinea pig after his brain was pulsed. The hemispheres are like two struggling minds in one.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:34 am

Glad you like these Summerlander,
It is nice to see someone like persinger investigating the psi stuff.Yeah,the QM entanglement of minds has long intrigued me too.From reading alot of related material I've learned that information,energy and entropy are linked.I think that consciousness itself must have some fundamental relationship with information.And as you know,information seems to become quantum entangled.I think it may be a good conjecture that when we sleep,parts of our consciousness might become 'decoupled' from the information in our body's local environment.Maybe by having our eyes closed and sensory info from the body limited by the brainstem,this might open up 'channel capacity' or decouple the mind or something?In dreamless sleep ,consciousness seems diffuse or 'high entropy'.In Lucidity and OBE it becomes organized -lower entropy I think...

I think our minds are connected too.Maybe the right brain hemisphere is more in tune with the collective? I've gotten info from the phase that was never input through my waking senses before;but I have not had any mutual OBEs or Lucids-even though I've tried with my wife who also lucid dreams. LOL maybe our frequencies were out of phase or there was bad weather or something

That's pretty interesting about your experience,did you post the details here?

BTW,about information and consciousness,have you heard of Giulio Tononi's "Information Integration Theory of Consciousness" ? This is a serious brain scientist who admits that information and consciousness may be fundamental attributes of nature.It has a strong materialist leaning, but I think it might be spun differently in light of Persinger's research.Maybe the brain is a node within a sea of local and nonlocal information-awareness potential?
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2202/5/42

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:58 am

There's a bit that Prof. Persinger's ideas don't really explain though.In some 'remote viewing' experiments there have been double blind set ups,so the information is not really being transmitted by a brain for a remote viewer to pick up. And then there's the future information too? I'm not sure Persinger's theory fully explains presentiment and precognition.I think more quantum weirdness is needed to begin to explain that stuff.

Here is a paper on QM and the mind that I really like.He makes an excellent case for the existence of a sort of overMIND:
http://www.fqxi.org/data/essay-contest- ... ept_09.pdf

Ric · Post by **Ric** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:08 am

Jeff, that essay by Casey Blood looks brilliant! Thanks for posting that. I'm partway through it and I can appreciate both the objectivity and open mindedness of it.
The science of Quantum physics has been at a standstill for about 70 years. As many like Dr Thomas Campbell pointed out, reality doesn't work without consciousness in the equation.

Bo · Post by Bo » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:37 pm

I often wonder if the "radio effect" one experiences sometimes in SP or prior to entering the phase are just hallucinations or something more.

This is so recognizable

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:51 pm

You're welcome Ric,
Glad you liked it. Casey Blood seems like an interesting and friendly person.I comment on Thomas Campbell's website pretty often,and a while back I emailed Casey Blood in hope that he would settle a debate on a thread.He was kind enough to check it out and email me back,but the thread was too incoherent for him to go through.

I like MBT too,I would just like to see experimental testing on the science side of it somehow because parts of it are so abstract.I don't think he and Ted are interested in that though,and it may not be possible anyway.The philosophy is great however, and it does explain psi pretty well.TC is also a very cool person with crazy phase (NPMR) skills. I got to meet him at a forum get together in North Carolina earlier this year.He sat for hours answering questions about his TOE with nothing in return.As he says "you can't get outside of consciousness to study it."

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:15 pm

Found this Abstract on Sean Harribance:
http://www.neuroquantology.com/index.ph ... e/view/301

"....neuropsychological data support the occurrence of measurable and specific out of body-like states .......strongly indicative of neuroQuantological processes that allow an interface between extracerebral energies,neuronal membrane,and his accurate experiences." !!

( I wish I had a spare $100 to read the whole thing!)

Here's Sean's website:
http://www.seanharribance.com/scientific-reports/

And I found this too,but haven't got to it yet. Persinger's stuff is amazing!
http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/c ... 4/515#SEC1

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:41 pm

This looks like the one :
http://www.jcer.com/index.php/jcj/article/view/99/101

Post by **Summerlander** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:22 pm

Jeff wrote: That's pretty interesting about your experience,did you post the details here?

I posted my experiences in regards to that ages ago on Astral Viewers and Astral Pulse (the latter I'm not so sure - I think). I'm not sure if I posted them here though.

I performed an experiment on visiting living people (both that I know well and don't know) in the phase. I entered the phase four times with the purpose of visiting others who would be able to confirm hits or misses. Twice I visited my friend Mike (stoneZoMbie on Astral Viewers) who lives across town from me and whom I've known since college (we're very good friends and I trust him), once to visit Cait (CaitHT from Astral Viewers) who lives in the States, and another to visit Jay (Astral Viewers also).

3/4 were somewhat accurate. In the ones that were "accurate", the "gist" of what the visited were doing at the time was perceived, or, I appeared to have seen things that were on their minds at the time. When it comes to the possibility of telepathy in the phase and dream states, I don't see it as far-fetched or paranormal at all. I think it is quite feasible.

I'm also open-minded about precognition after a dream I had which was so true and accurate to the events that unfolded in waking life two weeks later, that it is difficult to pass it off as coincidence.

I have experienced what appears to be telepathy and precognition. Therefore, I cannot afford to shrug off such phenomena as fantasy.

Either what I experienced were amazing coincidences and the subjects in mind interpreted my experiences the way they wanted to (whilst making associations)...or...I have truly stumbled upon something phenomenal and deserving of rigorous scientific study.

The only inaccurate one was jay's - but even in his account there were certain elements that seemed to coincide. I felt that the phase visit to jay might have been too personal, or, and this goes hand in hand with his over-sceptical nature, he simply did not make associations like the others. If Persinger's theories are correct, then it is also possible that Jay's visit coincided with a perturbation in the geomagnetic fields.

The trouble with all of this is that you never know who is giving you an accurate interpretation of your experiences and you never know when coincidence comes into play either. Nevertheless, telepathy and precognition as possibilities should be studied, especially when there is evidence that strongly suggests their existence. So far, my experience with the phase shows me that "hits" happen more than "misses" but, I may not be experienced enough to make such a claim.

Perhaps an equal amount of "misses" will emerge if I carry out more experiments. Me and my best man are planning to do a number one (similar to the Miss Z one).

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:03 am

Summerlander wrote:
Jeff wrote: That's pretty interesting about your experience,did you post the details here?
I posted my experiences in regards to that ages ago on Astral Viewers and Astral Pulse (the latter I'm not so sure - I think). I'm not sure if I posted them here though.

I performed an experiment on visiting living people (both that I know well and don't know) in the phase. I entered the phase four times with the purpose of visiting others who would be able to confirm hits or misses. Twice I visited my friend Mike (stoneZoMbie on Astral Viewers) who lives across town from me and whom I've known since college (we're very good friends and I trust him), once to visit Cait (CaitHT from Astral Viewers) who lives in the States, and another to visit Jay (Astral Viewers also).

3/4 were somewhat accurate. In the ones that were "accurate", the "gist" of what the visited were doing at the time was perceived, or, I appeared to have seen things that were on their minds at the time. When it comes to the possibility of telepathy in the phase and dream states, I don't see it as far-fetched or paranormal at all. I think it is quite feasible.

I'm also open-minded about precognition after a dream I had which was so true and accurate to the events that unfolded in waking life two weeks later, that it is difficult to pass it off as coincidence.

I have experienced what appears to be telepathy and precognition. Therefore, I cannot afford to shrug off such phenomena as fantasy.

Either what I experienced were amazing coincidences and the subjects in mind interpreted my experiences the way they wanted to (whilst making associations)...or...I have truly stumbled upon something phenomenal and deserving of rigorous scientific study.

The only inaccurate one was jay's - but even in his account there were certain elements that seemed to coincide. I felt that the phase visit to jay might have been too personal, or, and this goes hand in hand with his over-sceptical nature, he simply did not make associations like the others. If Persinger's theories are correct, then it is also possible that Jay's visit coincided with a perturbation in the geomagnetic fields.

The trouble with all of this is that you never know who is giving you an accurate interpretation of your experiences and you never know when coincidence comes into play either. Nevertheless, telepathy and precognition as possibilities should be studied, especially when there is evidence that strongly suggests their existence. So far, my experience with the phase shows me that "hits" happen more than "misses" but, I may not be experienced enough to make such a claim.

Perhaps an equal amount of "misses" will emerge if I carry out more experiments. Me and my best man are planning to do a number one (similar to the Miss Z one).

Awesome! I think I may have to try again with my wife sometime. Once I was so sure she would remember when I tried to pull her out of bed to go fly;but no dice.The same happened for her,I didn't remember anything she described.

Ric · Post by **Ric** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:48 pm

Once I was so sure she would remember when I tried to pull her out of bed to go fly;but no dic

Try that on your anniversary. Women alwasy always remember, in detail, everything on their anniversery.

(yes, there may be a story behind that..)

I like such experiments, but unfortunately I don't know anyone else that is into this.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:28 am

Ric wrote:
Once I was so sure she would remember when I tried to pull her out of bed to go fly;but no dic
Try that on your anniversary. Women alwasy always remember, in detail, everything on their anniversery. (yes, there may be a story behind that..)

I like such experiments, but unfortunately I don't know anyone else that is into this.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:31 am

I found this today which I think is relevant to this thread. It is an AMAZING discovery and seems consistent w/ Persinger's experiment.Telepathy and 'teleportation' of information may be fundamental to life itself.
http://neshealthblog.wordpress.com/2011 ... scientist/

Here's a video on it:
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17802

Post by **Summerlander** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:51 pm

I've come across Luc Montagnier's experiment ages ago. I subscribe to Newscientist. The results have not been released yet and it is taking too long for my liking. He could end up as a laughing stock among his fellow scientists.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:28 pm

Yeah,he is not known to be a a 'crank' or 'crackpot' though,so his experiment just might up end the establishment. But as you say,he could end up as a laughing stock too,which I think would be a shame.I like the fact that he has thought outside of the box and presented a possible challenge to conventional ideas.I don't think he should be shamed for this.

Just like the speed of light thing with neutrinos right now,maybe there will be some big revisions of our understanding of reality coming soon.....or not,we'll see I guess. It's certainly interesting though..

Post by **Summerlander** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:33 pm

Those ghost particles are certainly tricky. Newscientist has put forth the possibility that, if the measurements are correct, they did not exceed the speed of light at all, but rather, "hopped" dimensionally. It's mind-boggling! LOL!

NOVA · Post by **NOVA** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:10 am

Here is a video of a testamony of a woman who experienced NDE and discovered the Onesness of Us All and multi-dimensionality and that time is not linear.

http://youtu.be/tjLouLHH-_I

Well worth a look.

Ric · Post by **Ric** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:30 pm

Here is a video of a testamony of a woman who experienced NDE

Thanks for posting that Nova. I like studying NDE, and that was a good one

NOVA · Post by **NOVA** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:30 am

You are welcome Ric.

Another good one is "My stoke of insight" by Jill Bolte Taylor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

markjason · Post by **markjason** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:38 pm

Man is mortal...That's all

Post by **Summerlander** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:59 pm

Care to elaborate more on your beliefs rather than just stating the obvious from a living standpoint?

There is no proof of the afterlife...sure...but there is no proof that there isn't one either. Unless, of course, you have proof that there isn't one - in which case, enlighten us.